Thursday, September 28, 2006

Going after the goo-goos

I've certainly had my complaints about the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign and Common Cause, the "good government" groups, or goo-goos, that seem to find an ulterior motive for every dollar anyone contributes to a candidate.

I've voiced some of those complaints on this blog.

Mike McCabe of WDC has been willing to pile on Gov. Jim Doyle whenever the news media have wanted a quote. The goo-goos have had more than their allotted 15 minutes of fame this year.

I've often thought they were misguided, or at least overzealous. But I've never complained that they are partisan, picking on Democrats. They pick on everyone.

The Republican Party disagrees. In an ill-advised release today, the Rs accuse the Democracy Campaign of being Doyle dupes. It calls WDC "puppets of the Doyle campaign."

The WDC, you see, filed the complaint with the State Elections Board about Green's illegal $467,000 in special interest PAC money, and now has filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission. Doyle and the Democrats, in this case, are happy to see WDC challenge Green.

That, according to the Rs, means WDC is "doing the bidding of the Doyle campaign."

Somehow, I don't think that will play very well, at least with anyone who's been paying attention.


At 9:35 AM, Blogger Mike said...

Nothing about those funds is illegal and you know it. You use the work illegal in a sentence with Green's name any time you can work it in. Let the process work. Green will run out of places to apeal and the money will not be used. You should be thankful that he has decided to fight this, becase if he had simply given up the funds, you would have nothing to write about. (except cockfights)

Here's a thought. Let's discuss some issues. The budget, education, the environment, healthcare, security, just to name a few. Let's compare the candidats and their ideas and debate which one is better qualified to move Wisconsin forward. Let's do it without name calling and finger pointing. If that is not what this blog is about, perhaps you can suggest a blog that is issue based.

At 9:53 AM, Blogger atarijpb said...

So - following your "illegal" logic, then candidate Gore's pursuit of the 2000 Presidential race was totally legitimate?

Just chacking - you have got to be kidding me. There are plenty of people who would love to discuss Green's tired rhetoric on "The budget, education, the environment, healthcare, security, just to name a few." Green is running from that.

I'm still waiting for your answer about how Green is representing us by accepting $100,000 from the relators. Again - with this proviso - you cannot bring Doyle into the argument. Good luck!

At 10:31 AM, Blogger Mike said...


There are over 20,000 realtors in Wisconsin. They work, pay taxes and have families. They are "us". Just like plumbers, teachers and paper makers are "us". "us" is a very diverse group. If the economy changes and things get better for the realtors, things get better for us. If a paper company in Green Bay ads a machine and things get better for some paper makers, things get better for us. It is called the big picture. That's my answer.

Now, it seams that you are the one running from the issues. I ask about the issues and you want to talk about realtors. So, how about some real issues. What are Doyle's thoughts on the environment and how do they compare with Green's? Or pick another one, any one.

At 1:02 PM, Blogger George Roberts said...

If things get better for papermakers, and it helps them make more of a profit -- but they don't pass on part of it to the workers in their pay, and they overcharge their customers who pass on the costs to us . . . things may be better for them but not for us.

That is the big picture too often, when lawmakers listen too much to lobbyists.

So if things get better for realtors, and it helps them to make more of a profit -- but they don't pass on part of it to sellers and buyers, or they use it to hire more lobbyists to come up with ways around laws that were meant to help homeowners buy wisely and safely (not, for example, a house filled with mold or lead paint or the like that wasn't disclosed) . . . again, things may be better for them but not for us.

All that said, I agree with you that there is too much discussion on process and not enough on issues. In part, that can be a candidate's fault, as a poster wrote above, if he doesn't get into specifics that can be discussed. In part, that can be the media's fault, if they are so focused on the process because they're part of it and because they like (to foment) conflict. Issues require deep thinking to discuss, not the forte of too many in the media. (They also might say that issues don't sell issues of the paper, but when they rarely print such serious stories, we have to wonder what their evidence is to support what thus is only a theory.)

But that said, the company that candidates keep, especially if they keep money from them, does tell us something about the candidates -- the Repubs say that's so about Doyle, so it's certainly also so for Dems who have questions about the company and the money that Green keeps.

At 1:49 PM, Blogger atarijpb said...

Mike -
* Rep. Green voted against bipartisan reform of the Endangered Species Act.
* Rep. Green voted for a massive sell off of public lands to mining interests.

This blog
*Too bad Green doesn't have the same concerns about drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. There was a straight up-and-down vote on an amendment to take out the language that allows the Arctic drilling to proceed...Mark Green and Paul Ryan voted to allow it.
* Voted NO on barring website promoting Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump. (May 2006)
* Voted YES on deauthorizing "critical habitat" for endangered species. (Sep 2005)
* Voted YES on speeding up approval of forest thinning projects. (Nov 2003)
* Rated 35% by the LCV, indicating a mixed record on environment. (Dec 2003)

It took me five minutes to do this. I can cite more if you like. The only good idea he has is to split the DNR, but that has been proposed before on both sides of the aisle.

Oh, one other thing - I think George Roberts stated it more eloquently than I could, but here's my take - I've never heard anyone discussing the benevolence or philanthropy of realtors. I don't think they are "paying it forward." Maybe they are doing something for you, but I don't see it.

You want an issue - explain this:

Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)

So Gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Your court.

At 4:46 PM, Blogger Mike said...

In Green Bay we call the people who work at the papermills paper makers. And when things are good for them,or realtors for that matter, they go out into the community and spend money at other business and things get better for them. It's called an econimy.

As for the paper companies themselves, they have a long history of contributing to the community by supporting the local non profits with capital campaigns and even awarding scholorships.


You spent a whole 5 minutes on this. Wow, you must be an expert by now. Do you think you couldn't spend 5 minutes and come up with a set of headlines for any member of congress. Off course you can. Did you read any futher on any of these issues. Of corse not. You do not want the facts, just the headlines.

As for lumping a group of people together who have nothing in common but their proffession and suggesting they are not quality citizens, that is just wrong. There is a word for that, and the word is prejudice. And prejudice is born from ignorance. George is right. You are knowen by the company you keep. And I will not keep your company, even on a blog.

At 7:55 PM, Blogger Kachoo said...

An "econimy"?

That's what you call it in Green Bay?
Your thinking is as circular as your writing: "When things are good for them, things get better for them."


At 9:56 PM, Blogger atarijpb said...

Mike -

Great! Mission accomplished :-)!

You may have noticed (if you actully read what I posted) that I can cite more things if you would like. That was just the tip of the iceberg.

And, once again - I'm still waiting for you to defend what I asked about!

At 10:05 PM, Blogger badgervan said...

As a Green Bay native and resident myself, I apologize for "mike"'s spelling. He must be a product of the old Suamican school system.
To "mike": Yeah, what's left of the well paying mill jobs are great jobs. Too bad that Free Trade and the corporate mindset these days of 6.00 an hour and no health care or pension plan have greatly reduced those good jobs.
Used to be that companies shared the wealth with their employees in good times - sort of a shared moral and social covenant. Decent health care and some kind of fair pension plan were also provided, with the costs shared by employer and employee. Since Reagan, and especially under the Decider, those days are long gone. Now the corporation spends most of its time figuring out new ways to reduce labor costs, cut or reduce health care costs, and do away with earned pensions. Facts, "mike". Facts.


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